Kural Conversations

Interviews about The Kural: Tiruvalluvar's Tirukkural.

A Heart That Smiles: A Kural Conversation with Gustavo Esteva

July 25, 2022

Friendship, Politics, and the Inspiration of Poetry

With my friend Gustavo Esteva I explore the nature of real friendship, its relationship to politics in a time of upheaval, and the necessity of poetry as reflected in chapter 79, “Friendship,” of THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural.

Here are a few highlights and where in the video you can find them:

“Friendship is not a face smiling” and the inner smile of real friendship, even in the face of anger or depression: 4:36
Friendship as beyond expectations: 14:19
The place of friendship in the life of Ivan Illich and in politics: 18:17
A question from Gustavo about the meanings of verse 782, “Friendship with wise souls—a moon waxing—fellowship / With fools—a moon waning”: 37:00
The great need for the inspiration of poetry in the great desperation of present circumstances: 44:18
Where Gustavo’s many writings are being collected and organized to be shared with anyone who wish to read them: 51:00

Gustavo Esteva
August 20, 1936 – March 17, 2022
Rest in joyful conviviality, queridísimo Gustavo.

Gustavo Esteva can be described as a “deprofessionalized intellectual,” a nomadic storyteller, and the founder of the Universidad de la Tierra (University of the Soil) in the city of Oaxaca in southern Mexico. He is also a columnist for La Jornada and The Guardian. Esteva has been actively engaged in initiatives for reclaiming the commons with indigenous peoples, peasants, and those marginalized in urban life.

Here are the verses we talked about, in both English and Tamil:

786
Friendship is not a face smiling—friendship
Is a heart that smiles

முகநக நட்பது நட்பன்று நெஞ்சத்
தகநக நட்பது நட்பு

789
What is the throne of friendship—unwavering
Support in all ways

நட்பிற்கு வீற்றிருக்கை யாதெனின் கொட்பின்றி
ஒல்லும்வாய் ஊன்றும் நிலை

872
Friendship with wise souls—a moon waxing—fellowship
With fools—a moon waning

நிறைநீர நீரவர் கேண்மை பிறைமதிப்
பின்னீர பேதையார் நட்பு

From chapter 79, “Friendship.”

Translated from the Tamil by Thomas Hitoshi Pruiksma
THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural
Beacon Press, Boston

In Service of the Unseen: A Kural Conversation with Michael Meade

June 24, 2022

Singing One’s Own Song in the World

With storyteller, author, and scholar of mythology Michael Meade, I was delighted to speak about being known well, dying before you die, and the presence of the divine as reflected in THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural.

Here are a few highlights and where in the video you can find them:

Being well known versus being known well 3:58
Bringing the gift of one’s soul into the world 7:04
The earth as the source of generosity and blessing 8:45
Funeral as a central community ritual 13:00
Glory as a person’s song in the world 19:56

Here are the key verses we talked about, in both English and Tamil:

236
If you appear appear with renown—better not to appear
Than to appear without it

தோன்றிற் புகழொடு தோன்றுக அஃதிலார்
தோன்றலின் தோன்றாமை நன்று

239
Even the blameless abundance of earth dwindles
Beneath bodies without name

வசையிலா வண்பயன் குன்றும் இசையிலா
யாக்கை பொறுத்த நிலம்

235
Gain in loss—life in death—the discerning alone
Attain them

நத்தம்போற் கேடும் உளதாகும் சாக்காடும்
வித்தகர்க் கல்லால் அரிது

231
Give freely and gain glory—nothing else
Gains a life more

ஈதல் இசைபட வாழ்தல் அதுவல்ல
தூதியம் இல்லை உயிர்க்கு

From chapter 24, “Renown.”

Translated from the Tamil by Thomas Hitoshi Pruiksma
THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural
Beacon Press, Boston

Sweeter Than Ambrosia: A Kural Conversation with Ian Boyden

June 20, 2022

Learning to Mirror Delight

With artist, translator, and writer Ian Boyden, I was delighted to speak about children, the birthplace of empathy, and the joys of sulking and reunion as reflected in THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural.

Here are a few highlights and where in the video you can find them:

Material, ambrosia, and delight 4:50
Mirror neurons and the birthplace of empathy 14:18
Our capacity to listen and the Bodhisattva of Compassion 27:43
Waiting like a crane 35:48
Sulking and bliss 55:40

Ian Boyden is a visual artist, translator, and writer. Consistent across his productions are an intense interest in material relevance, place-based thought, and ecology, with a deep awareness of East Asian aesthetics. His work is interdisciplinary, and collaborations have involved a variety of scientists, poets, composers, and other visual artists. He has worked with two Chinese dissident writers and artists, Tsering Woeser and Ai Weiwei. In 2016, Boyden curated the exhibition Ai Weiwei: Fault Line, which led to his most recent book “A Forest of Names.” Boyden was awarded a 2019 NEA Literature Translation Fellowship to translate a manuscript of Woeser’s poetry.

Here are the key verses we talked about, in both English and Tamil:

64
Sweeter than ambrosia by far—the food the tiny hands
Of one’s children have scattered

அமிழ்தினும் ஆற்ற இனிதேதம் மக்கள்
சிறுகை அளாவிய கூழ்

66
Those who don’t hear the babble of their children
Call the flute and the lyre sweet

குழலினி தியாழினி தென்பதம் மக்கள்
மழலைச்சொற் கேளா தவர்

490
Wait like the crane that waits—and strike like the crane
When right

கொக்கொக்க கூம்பும் பருவத்து மற்றதன்
குத்தொக்க சீர்த்த இடத்து

1330
Sulking in love is joy—and joining
Again—joy of joys

ஊடுதல் காமத்திற் கின்பம் அதற்கின்பம்
கூடி முயங்கப் பெறின்

Translated from the Tamil by Thomas Hitoshi Pruiksma
THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural
Beacon Press, Boston

Between Silence and Speech: A Kural Conversation with Shin Yu Pai

May 29, 2022

The Fruits of Right Speech

With the award-winning writer, photographer, editor, and curator Shin Yu Pai, I was delighted to speak about awareness, silence, fruit, and thunder as reflected in THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural.

Here are a few highlights and where in the video you can find them:

Clear seeing 6:29
Cultural roots and notions of gender and silence 11:35
Discriminating awareness 19:26
Living with a verse as one lives with a koan 26:29
Fruit as experience, memory, and metaphor 30:37
Being able to thunder as an advisor and as a friend 39:05

Shin Yu Pai is the author of eleven books, including most recently Virga (Empty Bowl, 2021). In 2020, Entre Rios Books published Ensō, a 20-year survey of her work across creative disciplines including photography, book arts, public art, performance, personal essay and poetry. From 2015 to 2017, Shin Yu served as the Poet Laureate of The City of Redmond. She is a 2022 Artist Trust Fellow and was shortlisted in 2014 for a Stranger Genius Award in Literature. Her essays have appeared in Atlas Obscura, Gastronomica, ANMLY, Off Assignment, Zocalo Public Square, Tricycle, YES! Magazine, Seattle Met, and South Seattle Emerald. Her poetry films have screened at The Zebra Poetry Film Festival in Berlin and Northwest Film Forum. Shin Yu is a three-time fellow of MacDowell and has been an artist in residence at Taipei Artist Village, Centrum, The Ragdale Foundation, and The Pacific Science Center. She hosts, writes, and produces The Blue Suit, a podcast for KUOW on Asian American stories that will launch in July 2022.

https://shinyupai.com/

Here are the key verses we talked about, in both English and Tamil:

192
Fruitless speech before many—worse
Than heartlessness to friends

பயனில பல்லார்முன் சொல்லல் நயனில
நட்டார்கண் செய்தலின் தீது

194
Fruitless and denatured words in an assembly
Destroy goodness and grace

நயன்சாரா நன்மையின் நீக்கும் பயன்சாராப்
பண்பில்சொல் பல்லா ரகத்து

196
He who celebrates words without fruit—not a son
But the husk of a man

பயனில்சொற் பாராட்டு வானை மகனெனல்
மக்கட் பதடி யெனல்

199
Those who see truth with clear eyes never lapse
Into words without meaning

பொருடீர்ந்த பொச்சாந்துஞ் சொல்லார் மருடீர்ந்த
மாசறு காட்சி யவர்

200
Speak speech that bears fruit—never speech
That bears nothing

சொல்லுக சொல்லிற் பயனுடைய சொல்லற்க
சொல்லிற் பயனிலாச் சொல்

From chapter 20, “Freedom from Fruitless Speech.”

Translated from the Tamil by Thomas Hitoshi Pruiksma
THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural
Beacon Press, Boston

In The Ashes With You: A Kural Conversation with Gareth Higgins

April 7, 2022

The Wealth and Wonder of Relatedness

With Gareth Higgins, storyteller and author of How Not to Be Afraid, I was delighted to speak about compassion, community, guilt, and the ripple effects of kindness as reflected in THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural.

Here are a few highlights and where in the video you can find them:

How cherishing strangers connects with abundance. 5:32
The difference between difficulty and ruin. 13:55
“I will sit in the ashes with you.” 15:39
The shadow of guilt at never doing enough. 19:52
Timidity and sovereignty. 27:18
The ripple effects of kindness. 34:48
What it is to introduce a work of this kind to new people. 40:12

Gareth Higgins was born in Belfast in 1975, grew up during the northern Ireland Troubles, and now lives in the US. He writes and speaks about the power of storytelling to shape our lives and world, peace and making justice, and how to take life seriously without believing your own propaganda. He has been involved in peace-building and violence reduction in northern Ireland and helping address the legacy of conflict, received a Ph.D. in Sociology from Queen’s University Belfast, and helped teach the world’s first graduate course in Reconciliation Studies at Trinity College Dublin. He also helped found the Wild Goose, New Story and Movies & Meaning festivals. Gareth leads retreats in North America and Ireland; and he founded The Porch Magazine.

Brian McLaren says Gareth’s new book How Not to Be Afraid is “a beautiful book,” Kathleen Norris says it’s “a necessary book,” and Micky ScottBey Jones says it’s “a much-needed resource for skill-building through our fear and trauma, so that we might create the belonging and communities we desire.”

http://www.garethhiggins.net/

Here are the verses we talked about, in both English and Tamil:

83
The life that cherishes strangers each day
Never falls upon ruin

வருவிருந்து வைகலும் ஓம்புவான் வாழ்க்கை
பருவந்து பாழ்படுதல் இன்று

82
With a guest at the door it is not worth eating
Even the nectar of the gods

இருந்தோம்பி இல்வாழ்வ தெல்லாம் விருந்தோம்பி
வேளாண்மை செய்தற் பொருட்டு

87
We cannot foretell the good of offering—it rests
On the nature of each guest

இனைத்துணைத் தென்பதொன் றில்லை விருந்தின்
துணைத்துணை வேள்விப் பயன்

From chapter 9, “Hospitality.”

Translated from the Tamil by Thomas Hitoshi Pruiksma
THE KURAL: Tiruvalluvar’s Tirukkural
Beacon Press, Boston